Green Energy or Zero point

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Glenndk on Thu May 10, 2018 7:25 pm

A corona (DC!) motor can be 95% efficient - and run on atmospheric electricity:

The Earth's Atmosphere As a source for Electric Power. William Aston:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150128112026/http://www.kathodos.com/atmospherepower.pdf
Quote: "...
[pdf-page 4]
...
A modern version of the Poggendorff Corona motor utilizes a cylinder rotor instead of a disk. This particular motor was operated from charges of the earth's electric field. Dr. Jefimenko and Mr. Walker performed the experiment from the top of the Engineering Building using an antenna suspended from a baloon
..."

Youtube: How to Make Corona Motor (v2) aka Electrostatic Motor/Atmospheric Motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uEjXsX1F14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge

Related efficient ion motor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodeless_plasma_thruster
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektrodel%C3%B8s_plasma-motor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_Specific_Impulse_Magnetoplasma_Rocket
https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/VASIMR

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Ivan on Fri May 04, 2018 6:22 am

Hi Jalex,
the matter is not as simple, if not impossible.
The old crystal radio makes its energy ouptput from the transmitter it is tuned to. A wideband detector can make use of more transmitters simultaneously. Imagine all transmitters on the Earth are switched off - the crystal detector output drops almost to zero. The small rest gets its energy from storms and cosmic radiation in this case. Nothing miraculous.
I did not find whether N. Tesla ever demonstrated his car on long distances (hundreds of miles). Demonstrations on a factory yard could be a magician's trick, using a hidden powerful Tesla coil. He was able to manufacture them, no wonder.
The static electricity takes is (small) energy from mechanical movement. If one stands on a carpet, no energy accumulates. When he walks, a small part of the mechanical energy transforms into charge accumulated in his body. No mystery.

What is your opinion: Someone wants to kill all the mankind by making him to continue the combustion of fossil fuels, although he knows a clean solution? Who? Why?

BR from Ivan

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Jalex2 on Thu May 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Hi
Thanks for the replies
I read some where that the laws of Thermal Dynamics once had formulas that showed  how to access zero point energy but they were later taken out. 
I think an old crystal radio is pretty close to a zero point energy device. 
I also believe that Nicola Tesla knew how to do these things but its also possible that the technical data he was working with did not have things removed from it.  
I don't believe in perpetual motion or energy from nothing ether but if you can measure the input and out put accurately the gain has to be coming from the vacuum around us or zero point.  

  Lets go way out there and say if there are aliens here on earth the only way they could have gotten here is by using this zero point energy so we need to talk to them to find out how they do it lol
A good example of zero point energy I think is very simple. When you walk across a fresh new carpet and reach for the door knob. There is over a 100,000 volts there with very low currant.  Free energy is not impossible it's just something we don't understand.  They don't teach us these things because they don't want us to know.

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:39 pm

Jalex2 wrote:Hi All
...
After weeding out the obvious 
Fakes There seems to be a few circuits that actually work.
...
So was something taken out of our 
study material or is there something I have been missing.
Hi again Alex,

Very occasionally you see something that makes you wonder. Nearly all the videos on Youtube I can easily dismiss as obvious hoaxes, but what about this machine? There are loads of videos, one even locked in a sealed metal chamber for days, with no external forces (visible).
Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9XmRKR2S-o
Explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3yft0XKIw

Some that are really well made are like this: The rotating coil generated DC because the magnet is a single-pole magnet  Exclamation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR6Qait2JGY

And here is a really brave guy. Really convincing, but shows a rather obvious method of cheating :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_aa02IigVE

So I guess your original post was after seeing something "special" on the web? Care to share it?
(This kind of surfing is kinda adictive  Surprised)

BR Harry - SM0VPO

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:44 pm

Ivan wrote:Hi all,
"will never pay for the sun !" - are you sure??   Evil or Very Mad  Maybe those who refuse to pay a SunTax will be forced to live in a perpetual darkness in future.
I do not believe in perpetuum mobile. There is one important point, though: an integral consists of a function plus a constant. The constant is usually neglected resp. considered to be always zero. Why? For the sake of simplification? If nonzero constants were considered, math models would be more complicated, but they might reflect the reality more exactly.
This is philosophy and high maths, nothing for me.

BR from Ivan
Maybe those who impose sun tax will be banned  Mad  . Until they come up with a working perpetuum

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Ivan on Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:28 am

Hi all,
"will never pay for the sun !" - are you sure??   Evil or Very Mad  Maybe those who refuse to pay a SunTax will be forced to live in a perpetual darkness in future.
I do not believe in perpetuum mobile. There is one important point, though: an integral consists of a function plus a constant. The constant is usually neglected resp. considered to be always zero. Why? For the sake of simplification? If nonzero constants were considered, math models would be more complicated, but they might reflect the reality more exactly.
This is philosophy and high maths, nothing for me.

BR from Ivan

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:00 pm


How do you know that time is not slowing down, to a point of reversal, after which the universe will go backwards in time and space to a "Big Crunch"?
The future could have an ending, some time in the past!  affraid

it could be something about it , it's already written even in the bible that " I am the beginning and the ending , the alfa and the omega .." 
It wouldn't bother me to get younger not older  anyway , but for the moment  this heavy rotation perpetuum  looks like is playing in forward . 

Good night

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:50 pm

zsolt wrote:
Admin wrote:It is perpetual motion that I believe to be impossible - movement / energy without any input. According to the basic laws of conservation of energy, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I am very sceptic about any form of movement-without-end, or energy with no input.

The only thing i know that moves-without-end is  : time . It never starts and it never end's ,but we acknowledge that it passes ,   it's so simple  bounce
Ahaa!!
How do you know that time is not slowing down, to a point of reversal, after which the universe will go backwards in time and space to a "Big Crunch"?
The future could have an ending, some time in the past!  affraid


Oh, oh! Sorry, better not start that sort of thing here. Already had this conversation on Twitter  Twisted Evil

Goodnight, and thanks to you both for some interesting and thought-provoking ideas tonight :-)

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:39 pm

Admin wrote:Hi Zsolt,
I agree totally, the Internet is an excellent medium for changing the meanings of well established words. Interpretation often becomes difficult.

> No matter what I read, I always believe that "free energy" is energy that is already there waiting to be harvested, such as the Sterling engine, or the Foucault Pendulum.

In this statement I also include wind and solar panels: unused energy waiting to be gathered, harvested. I used to build 40-Watt solar panels and I have now have a bunch of 4-Ampere cells waiting to be assembled into an 80-Watt panel. I am missing only one component: time.

It is perpetual motion that I believe to be impossible - movement / energy without any input. According to the basic laws of conservation of energy, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I am very sceptic about any form of movement-without-end, or energy with no input.

Very best regards from Harry - SM0VPO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPuGa7byk8  Laughing Razz lol!

The only thing i know that moves-without-end is  : time . It never starts and it never end's ,but we acknowledge that it passes ,   it's so simple  bounce
Ps : if you plan to build and not to buy an MPPT charger , i have to share an "elaborated" schematic i managed to make up in the  2 years (time again) that passed . Maybe it can be further more elaborated .

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi Zsolt,
I agree totally, the Internet is an excellent medium for changing the meanings of well established words. Interpretation often becomes difficult.

> No matter what I read, I always believe that "free energy" is energy that is already there waiting to be harvested, such as the Sterling engine, or the Foucault Pendulum.

In this statement I also include wind and solar panels: unused energy waiting to be gathered, harvested. I used to build 40-Watt solar panels and I have now have a bunch of 4-Ampere cells waiting to be assembled into an 80-Watt panel. I am missing only one component: time.

It is perpetual motion that I believe to be impossible - movement / energy without any input. According to the basic laws of conservation of energy, it cannot be created or destroyed, only converted from one form to another. I am very sceptic about any form of movement-without-end, or energy with no input.

Very best regards from Harry - SM0VPO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPuGa7byk8  Laughing Razz lol!

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by zsolt on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

Hi  , 
Maybe  people writing things on the internet confuse terms , i think it depends on what you consider under  term free energy , and what you consider a perpetum mobile . For me free energy is that energy that i not pay a bill for it. And don't think  at the way that Harry's neighbor is achieving this Smile  . I think about sun, wind .... things like this 
For example i use a 100 W solar panel on my balcony , since it gets sun (in medium) ~3 hours/day in winter  and ~8 hours/day in summer you can calculate that is it's not much kWh/year , but i'm not paying. Of course you may say that i had to buy the panel so that's not  free , but when installed , from that point every Wh i get from the lovely sun is free. And like Harry's neighbor not paying for it Smile .  An will never pay for the sun ! 
Things that don't convert some sort of energy in the humanly usable form, and assume to produce for me any kind of energy from nothing are called a perpetum mobile (and there are 2 types of it as i remember....) . Thing's like this are often tagged with the term of ''free'' energy . I think this makes some confusion in the mass. 
And an other thing i don't feel right about when this subject is up, is when i hear the phrase that 'theory doesn't match with practice', this is not true, i never experienced that . "Theory doesn't match exactly practice" that's an other thing , many theoretical models are formulated in consideration of simplification, or even with not taking (/or knowing at all ) in account all the facts that go with the process , so of course that the practical result will be different from the theory . That doesn't mean that the theory was not good , i would rather say a phrase  like  "the theory did not approximate well what will happen "

(i know that it's a lot of philosophize but this 2 things bother me on the internet, so had to come out  Smile  )

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:40 pm

Hi Alex,
Thank you for the link ad the info. It looks like a rather comprehensive list of many of the free-energy systems. I have downloaded them and I will read them when I am next on the plane to Spain.

No matter what I read, I always believe that "free energy" is energy that is already there waiting to be harvested, such as the Sterling engine, or the Foucault Pendulum.

No such thing as output with no input, but some of the published attempts are extremely ingenious.

A guy once came to visit me, and flew from another country for the day, to discuss his ideas for a self-powered city. All the ideas he had would harvest energy, but nothing on the scale needed to actually power or heat anything.

For example, he showed me this drawing (good start):

Then he proposed building a giant version of this 1-turn alternator with a really thick wire, then by stepping-up the output with a transformer, feeding another step-up transformer, feeding another ... he hoped to get enough to power a whole city.

To be quite honest, I admire people like that; people who take a proven fact and try to "run" with it. Without that sort of person the aeroplane would never have been invented. But even with a good and vivid imagination, you sometimes need to speak to engineers who have more knowledge.

In my mind there is only one form of "free energy". Take a 100m roll of cable, fit a plug and socket to the ends, then plug it into the neighbours garden lamp-post outlet Smile  The easiest way of getting energy is to work and earn $2, and then buy 1KW of the stuff.

Having written that, and added a bit of joviality, I must add that I am still open to ideas and listening to anyone who is serious. I am certain that there are forces in this universe that we have yet to discover, or techniques that have not been considered or even recognised.

Very best regards from Harry - SM0VPO

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Jalex2 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:49 pm

Hi Harry
https://sites.google.com/site/aferlab/home/patrick-kelly---a-practical-guide-to-free-energy-devices

I have played with a lot of these devices  including the Cold Electricity ideas 
I have read that with cold electricity an amp meter will not register and if there is no current
flowing in a circuit I don't see how it can do anything. Everything we learned in school doesn't 
seem to apply here. also the advanced Joule Thief circuits  A very simple circuit that is supposed to be 
over unity but when I tried to get it to power it self it acted just like all our books say it will. 
I am going to study it more as well.

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Re: Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Admin on Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:30 pm

Hi Alex,
It is indeed an interesting problem, and one I have never even thought about. A good explanation of the problem is given at :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

"Physics currently lacks a full theoretical model for understanding zero-point energy; in particular the discrepancy between theorized and observed vacuum energy is a source of major contention."
...
"A popular proposal that attempts to address this issue is to say that the fermion field has a negative zero-point energy while the boson field has positive zero-point energy and thus these energies somehow cancel each other out."
...
"This discrepancy is known as the cosmological constant problem and it is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in physics."


I will have to do some reading about this since it looks really interesting.
Was your question prompted by any specific working experiment (not faked)? Do you have a link?


The only "plausible" permanent-magnet motor I have ever seen that defies physics is this, but or course, I still have strong doubts (total disbelief, actually):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLek_3Hpwus
"Something for nothing" I feel is still not possible, whatever the theory behind it.


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Green Energy or Zero point

Post by Jalex2 on Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Hi All
I am sure there are many engineers that come here.
I have played around with a lot of this stuff and still don't 
know what is really going on  After weeding out the obvious 
Fakes There seems to be a few circuits that actually work.
Of course I went to the same schools you did and learned 
thermal dynamics but when I investigated things like cold
electricity , Permanent magnet motors, and other free energy
devices I never saw any indication of something defying the laws
of Physics or Thermal Dynamics and they followed what I 
learned in school exactly. So was something taken out of our 
study material or is there something I have been missing. 

I would like your views one what you think about all this.

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